Jacob, Wilk discuss issues of service, education, eminent domain, and divisive political rhetoric
A political forum October 9 in Noble, sponsored by Noble Public Schools Foundation and Noble Public Library, brought together the candidates for State House District 20. House District 20 encompasses the communities of Newcastle, Noble, Goldsby, Blanchard, Slaughterville, Lexington and Washington. Candidates on the HD-20 ballot on Tuesday, November 5 are: Mitchell Jacob (D - Newcastle) and Jonathan Wilk (R - Goldsby).
According to the forum organizers, questions to be asked were submitted by constituents. The candidates had 90 seconds to respond. The forum started with the candidates being asked to introduce themselves.
Wilk said he is retired from the fire service after 23 years, and now runs a cow-cattle operation and works fire investigations for insurance companies.
Jacob said he is an Army veteran and a student at OU Law, who will graduate in May with a juris doctorate. His background includes banking and finance, as well as service in the Army.
QUESTIONS & COMMENTS
Q: Partisan politics are very prominent today. How will constituents who are not from your political affiliation be assured you will represent their interests if elected? What actions would you take to connect with your constituents and thoroughly understand their viewpoints before making decisions on devisive issues where your opinions may differ.
Jacob: All we all want to do is move forward, work together find solutions and make a better Oklahoma and a better district.
You can tell me when I’m not best representing you. 405-407-6975, that’s my cell phone number. I think it’s very important because if you can’t get ahold of the person who wants to represent you, then who are they representing? If you take a chance to and elect me to represent you, I’ll hold town hall meetings — monthly during the legislative session or quarterly when the legislative session is over. Connect with you and see how I can represent you and what we can do together.
Wilk: My whole career has been bipartisan, if you will. It doesn’t matter whether you are in the agriculture industry, whether you are in the oil and gas industry, or whether you are in public safety. You have to represent people. You don’t get to ask them are you Democrat or Republican before you can serve them. That’s not what public service is about. I think I have a proven track record of over 23 years now, in different careers that I’ve worked in, representing both sides and showing that I can do that. I have had situations arise through criminal investigations or emergency situations where I’ve had opportunities to sit down with folks either after it or during it, and understand their perspective and why they did what they did, and what got them to this point. I think I have a lot of knowledge and experience in dealing with people from different backgrounds and understanding their perspective. ––––––––– Q: What long-term effects do you think the increased use of emergency certified teachers could have on the quality of education on our schools? What steps should the state take to reduce the reliance of the use of emergency certified teachers, while still addressing teacher shortages?
Wilk: The emergency certifications are a good tool but they are not an end all, be all, and they should not be used as a substitute for permanent certifications. My wife was an emergency certified teacher prior to being certified. I understand how it is meant to work, and how it is a benefit for the school districts and for the individuals pursuing that degree field. But I think we have to do a better job of supporting our school staff to try to entice them to go ahead, and (realize) this is a commitment you can make and we’re going to support you in that when you get in that career field. We can do a lot of that by toning down the rhetoric, and supporting them the way they want to be supported.
Jacob: 6,300. In May of this year that’s what I understand to be the number of teachers who are fully certified to staff all the open positions. 6,300 — That’s a staggering number of positions that we need filled. On the one hand, if we had those who are certified and have been through the training and certification process, we know the results that we can expect in their classroom and with the students on the tests they will take. We would have a much better understanding of how those children will do throughout their time in the public school system. I think the long-term effects of consistently recertifying emergency certified teachers will only be known long after the fact, and I imagine that the quality of education will not be as high as it should be for certified teachers.
As to how we can address that, I’ve put a lot of thought into this actually and I’d like to talk with anyone after this. First I would like to do a study, and then propose a bill. We have universities like OU and Cameron, OSU, that offer teaching degrees. These are state institutions that are run by the state, so all we need is a legislator who will write a bill that says that X number of students can enroll each year and then has to serve in a public school. ––––––––– Q: Teacher burnout and turnover: What can and should the legislature do to address this problem?
Jacob: Education needs to be given back to educators. The Oklahoma Constitution is very clear that the department of education and the state legislature does not have the authority to dictate curriculum, in class teaching styles, things of that nature, to teachers and educators. We need to raise salaries — $42,000 a year with a required four-year degree, there are jobs that pay significantly better than that and do not require a fouryear degree. I applaud every educator who chooses to educate our most valuable asset, our children, despite the expectations and pay that goes with that. The legislature cannot force parents to be better parents. That’s the first thing we need to do in this state. All people are accountable for their actions and that includes the children in our schools. From there, we should be providing our public school children with lunch and breakfast every single day because a child who is fed is a child who wants to be there and is a child who can actually learn. Beyond that we should stop trying to rule with a heavy hand from the Capitol, things that the Department of Education and the legislature are banned by the State Constitution from doing anyway. Whether that be dictating that we are to be teaching from Bibles, or dictating. I’ve blanked on my second example, please forgive me for that.
Wilk: That sounds pretty familiar with what law enforcement went through the past few years. Not a whole lot of difference there.
I think the biggest issue is exactly what you said, the disciplinary issues at the schools. They need to get their hands untied. I firmly believe in discipline. I think every teacher when I was growing up had a wooden paddle hanging at the front of the room. I am a big proponent of that. I’m just going to tell you.
The other thing that is within the legislator’s control, is lead by example. There is cancers on both sides of this issue. Both sides need to work together to get those cancers rooted out to where we can all come together to come up with some solutions, and come up with the same goal, which is educating our kids. ––––––––– Q: What is your stance on raising wages for school support staff and how do you believe their compensation impacts the overall learning environment?
Wilk: On support staff what I think of, when that is mentioned, are the teachers aides, some helpers assigned to help the IEP students, and things of that nature. By reducing the class sizes, that will have a big positive impact, and on the need to have those positions. And then the ones that you do have, we can afford to pay them more. But again, we have to get to the point where we say enough is enough, and if parents aren’t controlling their kids, they need to be sent home. And so, I think the solution is not more government, its less government and more parenting.
Parents need to take more responsibility for their kids, and if you can’t control them at home, the school is not there to raise your kids. By reducing the number of school support staff, by having a zero tolerance policy for those issues, I think we will be able to increase that again on a merit based system.
Jacob: I was extremely proud to stand in front of the Secretary of State’s office, a few months ago, for State Question 832. I believe that we should be raising wages in Oklahoma, period. That includes for support staff at schools. Its impact upon the schools seems pretty obvious to me. If I am taking bids on who is to work for me on a remodel of my home, I’m not going to take the bid that comes in the lowest. I’m probably not going to take the second lowest either. And I’m going to look for the one that is a sweet spot between value and competence. We will always get better applicants and better staff whenever we pay them more, offer them more benefits, and take care of them. I don’t see how you could have any negative impact, at least on the quality of education as is the question, from raising the wage of the people who are tasked with taking care of and educating our children. I would 100% support increasing that pay and increasing the quality of education. ––––––––– Q: Given the significant number of graduates not continuing their education at the collegiate level, what measures would you take to support trade-centered and vocational education opportunities after high school?
Jacob: I am incredibly proud of Oklahoma’s vo-tech programs. I have two boys enrolled in vo-tech right now: one for automotive and one for welding. I think we have incredible programs and I am so honored to live in Mid-America Technology Center’s district and to work with Mike Eubank on a regular basis. In short, if you are not going to go a traditional four-year route, which I encourage anyone who has the ability to do it to go that route and Oklahoma’s Promise can be an excellent way of achieving that for those who are worried about the ability to pay.
I believe we should take the Tulsa Community College and Tulsa County model, and if you are from this district, and if you graduate with a certain GPA, let them attend a vo-tech program for free or at a reduced price. They are already a great value. One of my sons is going to welding school, and the total allin for books and supplies is only $4,000. I think we are doing wonderful things in Oklahoma. I want to take that one step further and empower everyone who wants to, to be able to, without price being the thing that prevents them from pursuing their dreams, and becoming a contributing member to this incredible and wonderful state.
Wilk: On the vo-techs or career techs, or whatever you wish to call them, I think they are very good. They are very good, but I think we have to do better. There are a lot of opportunities for a lot of rural communities even outside of House District 20. The aviation programs that are coming along are really good. Moore-Norman has some stuff that’s in the works. I know that Mid-America is looking at expanding their operation for the Newcastle and Blanchard areas,which is very good. I’m happy to see that. I think we can do some things with local companies within this state who are looking for staffing. I’m sure they would be glad to follow the catalyst education model and divert their tax dollars to those vo-techs just like they are able to do with their public schools. ––––––––– Q: How would you advocate for transparency in government to ensure constituents can effectively monitor the performance of their elected officials? What steps would you take if you believe an elected official is not performing their responsibilities to their constituents?
Wilk: Transparency is an obligation when you step up to being a public official. You are required to provide that to your constituents. My personal method of doing that is by phone-to-phone conversations or person-to-person, just because a lot can get lost in translation, whether it is by social media or even emails or text messages. A lot of things can get misinterpreted, misconstrued. In regards to what I would do about another constituent not being transparent, it’s part of the Democracy that we live in. That’s between the voters and that constituent. It’s not my place to interfere with that. I can give guidance to them, and I can express concerns from my constituents to them, but at the end of the day it’s up to them and that poll box. That’s not my place to interfere.
Jacob: If another elected official is not fulfilling their role, that depends. If they are a legislator, for example, I’m sure all of us remember back to high school, being assigned to a group project, and that person just chose not to do anything but we still had to turn something in. So I simply believe in doing the hard work, and I’m not going to let someone else get in the way of that, simply because they are not doing their job. This state, and you, are worth more than that, and I’ll do whatever work is necessary to get things done. If we are talking someone who is not a legislator and has a mandate, for example the State Superintendent of Education, there are a lots of options: Writs of Mandamus, Writs of Prohibition. We have a variety of tactics available to us to ensure that they are complying with their mandate, and doing the job that they were elected to do. It simply depends on who we are talking about. ––––––––– Q: What about campaign finance reform (transparency)? How do you feel about that?
Wilk: When we were asked at a forum, maybe it was Newcastle, they had asked about election integrity. This is the exact topic that I brought up. I thought this is the biggest threat to our election integrity — the dark money that can be put out there without anyone’s name being attached to it, or even where it is coming from. I’m totally opposed to dark money. The more transparent those expenditures are, the better outcomes we’ll have.
Jacob: As for transparency, again 405-407-6975, call me or text me. I’m happy to answer any questions, let you know how I voted if you are unable to find the information. I believe transparency is something you live by, and just something that you do. That’s how I feel. As for campaign finance, I was actually blown away when I was running. I went to file a quarterly report, in June I believe, and I was told don’t file anything, you don’t file anything until the primary. And then for this one we didn’t file until August, and then we don’t file until the General. I think you should be able to know where the money is coming from, and who is funding a campaign, long before the week before the election. You should have access to all that information regularly and constantly. Even if it adds a lot of expense and time and complication to my campaign, it is absolutely worth it and you deserve to know it. ––––––––– Q: How do you make sure that homeowners of older properties, some that might have been paid off for decades, receive fair market value when their homes are taken through eminent domain, especially considering potential historical or sentimental values?
Jacob: So whether it is OTA, a utility company, the department of transportation, whatever entity is looking to exercise their power of eminent domain against property, my recommendation is to just keep holding out. Don’t accept the first offer, don’t accept the second offer, don’t accept the third offer. Don’t accept any of the offers. Make them work for it, and then whenever they provide you that number, challenge it. Challenge the appraisers, hire your own. I recognize some of this comes with expenses, but your property value will only be of paramount importance to you. And if you want to call me, 405-407-6975, I’ll walk you through the exact steps that I would take to protect the value of my home. But I strongly recommend that you do not accept those offers. Multiple studies and multiple news reports have shown, that when you force OTA into court the jury will always give a significant better appraiser than whomever is doing the eminent domain project.
Wilk: As a conservative, I’m alway going to side with the property owner’s rights, my parental rights or any other personal rights. I believe in limited government, and that type of abuse leads to big government. One of the things when this started, for the turnpike acquisition, I dug in and began looking in to where we are as a state in regards to eminent domain. What I found was that we have, from a property owner’s perspective, some very week eminent domain laws in Oklahoma compared to the rest of the country. Whereas when you look at Florida’s, per se, they have a very strict guideline to follow, very strict model, that is outlined in the judicial system. And it is a timeline and
HD-20 FORUM on page 7 step-by-step, and it’s got to be approved by the court in that district.
HD-20 FORUM: Both candidates have strong words for turnpike authority
I think that one of the things that we can do as legislators, is look and say, hey, is the thing that we adopted in 1907 still a good model? I don’t think it is. And I think that Florida has a very good model for the citizens and for property owners’ rights that still allows those necessities to take place when they have to. ––––––––– Q: When the turnpike went into the Choctaw area, the biggest problem was not that they didn’t get fair market value, they did get fair market value, but if you have an 80 year-old frame house that’s been paid off for 30 years, how do you possibly go find some place comparable to live with what they are going to pay you? Is that something the legislature can or should address?
Wilk: I’ll be honest with you. I don’t know that you are ever going to find a satisfactory answer to that for either party. One of the things that we need to be looking at, from our perspective, is, is this really in the right location to impact the least amount of people and provide the safest alternative routes that we can possibly provide. If that means we spend a few extra dollars to move it further south, east, north, west — whatever — to impact fewer people, somebody down the road two miles may want it. Their property may not mean anything to them. I think we have to look at different ways to say, hey, can we mitigate this damage? To answer your question, I don’t know how to really answer that.
Jacob: Similarly, I struggle to think in this short period of time to the direct solution to that issue. But, I do know that one of the reasons we find ourselves, at least with this east-west connector running through Norman, that we find ourselves in this issue of they aren’t going to move it, the property owners suing isn’t doing anything, nothing is being adjoined, it is still progressing, is the Oklahoma Supreme Court saying that the debtor rights, when they issued those bonds, are greater than the rights of the property owners in the path of that project. I have fundamental issues with a court that decides that. Those property owners and those property rights — those should be protected first and foremost. Then a bunch of other things are going to happen, the municipalities, the sovereigns, and then maybe we’ll care about the debtor’s rights at the bottom. But those debtors should not have rights that force you to lose your home or these once in a lifetime buildings are being destroyed because we believe that the rights of bond holders are greater than the rights of property holders, and that can be addressed by statute. It will not directly address eminent domain, but it can work its magic in the background to effectively give us more leverage when these projects do come through our cities and counties. ––––––––– Q: What is your position on the original promise that Oklahoma Turnpikes would be returned to the State after their bonds were paid off? And, how do you plan to address that issue? If elected would you support legislative efforts to reevaluate the status of Oklahoma Turnpikes and ensure that original agreement is honored?
Jacob: I’m going to go 100 steps further than that. Oklahoma Statute, Title 69 Section 1701 is the enabling act for the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority. Let’s abolish the OTA — get rid of it — and turn them over to the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, tell it to finish out any current revenue obligations, and no additional turnpikes can be installed in the state of Oklahoma.
Wilk: The original agreement has to be met. I’m not going to back down on that. Whatever we agreed to and was agreed upon by those parties, must be fulfilled first. That was the second part of the question. (EDITOR: The next answer is in relation to the first part about returning turnpikes to the state after bonds are paid off) Yes, it’s a pretty simple answer. ––––––––– Q: How do you view the impact of divisive political rhetoric on public trust in government institutions in the Democratic process, and in your opinion what responsibility do elected officials have in ensuring that their language and messaging do not incite violence or hatred?
Wilk: The first thing I want to talk about is decorum. I think what’s going on here tonight is very civil, and that’s the way it should always be. We can sit here and disagree on different policies all day long, but it’s not personal. This extremism or radicalism from one side or the other, and both sides, needs to stop. It’s not doing any of us any good. We try to raise our kids right, and then we get up here and act like fools. It’s got a huge impact, far outside him and I, if we were up here badgering like that. It’s a personal responsibility, but at the same time it’s a responsibility of the voters to not elect those individuals.
Jacob: Whomever you are, where ever you are from, whatever your politics, religion, ideology, whatever you believe, wherever you were born, wherever you call home, I love you. Welcome to Oklahoma. Welcome to House District 20, and welcome to our shared home. That’s how it starts right there. You can solve divisive politics by stop being divisive, by talking in a way that respects someone else’s disagreement, acknowledges them, lets them know they’ve been heard, and then you can move on to a common ground, that you can start with, and then work toward changing it. I am not right and you are not wrong, just as you are not right and I am not wrong. These are policy decisions. These are ways forwards and paths to govern. There are 4.8 million people in the state of Oklahoma, which means there are 4.8 million ways that the government should be operating. And the only way we are going to get to a position where we agree with each other is if we have a conversation. 405407-6975. Give me a call. Let’s have that conversation. ––––––––– Q: When faced with a conflict between your conscience and your convictions, and your parties leadership direction, what will determine your course? What topic or subject can you see that such a conflict might arise?
Jacob: I’m running to represent the people of House District 20. Neither the Republican party nor the Democratic party can vote on us and put us into office. Only you can do that. Only the individual people. My only obligation is to House District 20 and to Oklahoma, it is not to a party. It is the good people that I meet door knocking, making phone calls, and just being out in the community, that let me know that I’m doing the right thing, and that this is worthwhile. It is not anyone in Oklahoma City or in Washington D.C., or wherever it may be that is making this happen. I wasn’t ready for the second question, but yes one thing that I can think of offhand, is I’m an Oklahoma native — I’m a fourth generation Oklahoman and have little fifth generations running around the house. I have conservative values built into me, and believe myself to be a conservative person, but just not conservative enough for all of my friends in the District. What that means to me, is that if I’m faced with a policy that expands government or expand the role that government plays or interferes in your life, I do not support that. I believe in a government that is accountable to the people, built by the people, and is run by the people, not a government that runs the people.
Wilk: To kind of echo Mitch’s position on representing the people versus representing your leadership or your party, to be honest with you I couldn’t agree with him more. We have to represent the people who put us there. Those are the ones we were elected to represent, those are the ones who we are getting the opportunity to be their voice up there. I’m not going up there to represent a special interest group, and that includes the Republican party or its factions. As far as going against the grain on leadership on what challenges I perceive, a lot of individuals run on the conservative ticket that they want smaller government and lower taxes, but then they get up there and they don’t always do that. In those situations I’m going to go against the grain on it. I’m going to do exactly what I said I was going to do which is fight all I can to lower taxes, and put more money in your pocket and keep the government out of your business and out of your life. I’ve met with the speaker a couple of times now, and I don’t know enough about him and his leadership until our caucus retreat to say what I’ll disagree with him on and what I’ll agree with him on leadership. ––––––––– Q: Public libraries provide vital resources to our communities like bridging the digital divide, especially for low income and rural populations. If elected what steps will you take to ensure that public libraries have the funding and resources they need to meet the growing demands of their community?
Wilk: In terms of the rural library model in Oklahoma and providing internet access for youth and the elderly, and an opportunity for them to learn computer skills as they get up a little older in life, I support all that. What I don’t support is our libraries being used for welfare projects, from housing for homeless, from the loitering. I don’t support any of that, but I do support their intent in terms of educating folks, giving folks an opportunity to learn that otherwise may not have that opportunity, but I want to be careful as we do that as to what we are actually funding.
Jacob: I love public libraries. When I was young — between the ages of 10 and 13 or so — there was a public library that was two blocks from my house. It took maybe 4 minutes to get there when I was walking, slowly. I consumed 100s if not 1000s of books from that library, and it ignited a fiery passion that exists today that is consuming more books. Law school has challenged that passion a little bit, I’ll tell you that. Those get a little dry and dusty from time to time, but I love reading. In fact, I love what our libraries, at least in Newcastle that I can speak to directly, are doing. They do after school tutoring programs for the children at the elementary and middle school. They do literacy programs in toddler time, and just anything that gets people hooked on reading — the best thing to be hooked on. What I want to do is be a friend of the library. I believe that’s what we call the library boards, and do what I can to ensure that they have the support, the resources, and the staff they need to make our communities that much better, and hopefully, change another life, and get another child who wants to read for the rest of their life. And as an aside, I challenge each of you to read one new book a month. It’s really good and can develop a bunch of new hobbies and skills that we never knew about. ––––––––– Q: As you look ahead at what would be your first legislative session, what legislation do you hope to champion and why is that important to you?
Jacob: I’m a proponent and a product of public schools, and I love our public schools. I think that we would see a benefit to education if we would just do a couple of really simple things, that in my book will help every child. What I want to do is amend the Parental Choice Tax Credit Act. Stop taking $250 million per year and spending it on private institutions, and instead use it to pay for lunch and
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breakfast for every public school child who is attending school every day. With whatever is left, I’d love to create a new tax credit for teachers who are buying supplies out of their own pocket for their classroom. I’m only thinking $250 per teacher per year. You should not be saddled with the expense of investing in our most valuable resource. That should be an investment by the state. I want to pass legislation that amends that Parental Choice Tax Credit Act that keeps your public dollars in public institutions, and helps all 700,000 students in Oklahoma instead of only 30,000 per year.
Wilk: I’m going to go outside the lines a little bit and venture out into some subjects that are important to me and outside public education. Some of them have to do with it, but the first one and most primary one we need to do is that we need to perform an audit of all the state agencies, and see where we are at, what we need to cut, see what we can cut, see if we need to add some money somewhere. I think that’s going to have to be done first and foremost, especially since the House of Representatives pretty well controls the budget. I think that’s the best starting point we can ask for. The second thing I want to do is work on tax relief. We can do that after we do the audit. The other thing I’ve been passionate about is the eminent domain laws in Oklahoma. They need to be modeled more along the lines of Florida’s. I think that will save a lot of this rhetoric and this fighting and some of this stuff we talked about earlier. There is one bill that I want to fund public education for, I want to fund cell phone jammers for the classrooms. That’s the legitimate truth. I think they are a huge distraction, they are a huge problem. The teachers need to be able to teach without them being on their phones. They’ve done it for 100 years, and we can still do that. ––––––––– Q: What message do you want to leave with voters today about your candidacy and your commitment to serving Oklahoma?
Wilk: I want to narrow the scope of that a little bit from serving Oklahoma to serving House District 20. I have heard legislators in the past discuss that — where they have to represent the entire state. I disagree with that. I think I represent the people here in District 20. That’s who I want to represent. Obviously there is going to be some contrast in policies between my opponent and myself. I think that’s where you need to make your decision. Base it on policies. I think right now in Oklahoma if you want to have a voice at the capitol, you are going to have to have a conservative up there, or you won’t have a voice but you won’t get anything passed.
As you go to the polls, look at the party — what their positions are — you don’t have to agree with the person 100% of the time. Nobody is going to. You need to be in line with them about 80% of the time, at least. I’m not convinced I agree with my wife that much, but I’m still married to her, or she’s still married to me, rather, right? I’ll be available, I’m just a common sense, just a normal guy, and I’ve been down in the trenches with you. I’ll be here if you guys ever need anything, you need to reach out. I want you to know who you are voting for.
Jacob: I am one of nine kids from Oklahoma. I know what it means, like many, many of you, to be in a tight spot, to wonder if that car is going to be repossessed, to wonder how the rent is going to be paid, and to wonder where the next meal is coming from. Like probably all of us, I busted my butt to get here today. I worked for years as a busboy and a dishwasher, and then in my early 20s I became a mortgage loan originator and stock broker, and gave all that up to enlist in the Army, all while attending school. I have five kids and I’m in my third year of law school, and I’m running this campaign without a campaign manager, without a single staff member, and without any consultants whatsoever.
All that to say is that I’ll give you two reasons I’m going to ask you to take a chance on me on November 5 and vote to elect Mitchell Jacob to represent House District 20. One — I promise you that I will always put in the work. Two — you can never accuse me of not caring for you, for this district and for this state.
EDITOR’S NOTE: If you would like to watch the forum, it can be found at: https://www. noblepsfoundation.org/2024november-final-election-forum.
